Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

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2wayspeaker created the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

Star Oblivion

Deck Name: Star Oblivion ver 2
Author: 2wayspeaker
Description:
The goal of this Deck is to graverob your predator so early they cannot do anything against you, then you graverob your prey, you finish using their vampires and torpor/burn/steal the rest.

Turn 1 & 2 Hand:(Zillah, Event, Graverobbing, Bum's Rush)
Burn cards to get a Zillah's Valley, the goal is to bring out Keith and Ash at the end of turn 2.
Get NSA Trio in play to prevent combat ends.
(If your predator has weenee consider bringing out Scourge first)

Turn 3 (Apportation, Graverobbing, Bum's Rush)
Your predator hopefully brings out a high cap (9/10/11) at the end of his turn 3.
Rush the predator high cap with Ash, torpor them with 1R aggravated, Apportation until it sticks.
Play Graverobbing with Keith and burn 2 blood to get a ready high cap vampire that has lost no blood.

T4-end: Start burning excess Zillah/Event (9 cards) and hope they don't choke your hand too soon.
Try to play Deal with the Devil when you choke up, but when you get Deal with the Devil in turn 1/2/3 and you do not have the cards you need you should go for the discard as well.
Recap: 
T1: Everybody influences
T2: I bring out 2 vamps, Keith and Ash
T3: My predator just brings out his high cap, I steal my predators High Cap and bleed my Prey with it, my prey brings out a high cap.
T4: My predator is influencing a new vampire, I steal my prey's vampire, I bleed my prey with both stolen vampires.
T5-14: Torporing new vamps popping up and stealing/destroying them asap.

Crypt (Capacity min=3 max=7 avg=5; 12 cards)
===============================================

2x Antonio d'Erlette 5 :dom: :for: :pot: :THA: !Tremere:4
4x Ash Harrison 7 :cel: :dom: :AUS: :THA: !Tremere:5
2x Frondator 5 :dom: :tha: :AUS: !Tremere:4
4x Keith Moody 3 :DOM: !Tremere:4

Library (60 cards)
=====================

Master (11 cards)
1x Deal with the Devil - Prevent choke up on useless cards mid game
2x Fortschritt Library - Get the event card while cycling 2 cards
1x Golconda: Inner Peace - Bloat from a high cap stolen vamp, throw away only in emergency, only pool gain.
7x Zillah's Valley - Get 2 active vampires in the ready region before T2

Event (3 cards)
2x NSA Trio - Prevents Combat ends type defense
1x Scourge of the Enochians - Prevents weenee onslaught

Action (20 cards)
4x Abbot - Free intercept, easy cycle
8x Bum's Rush
7x Graverobbing - Steal a torpored vamp and bring it into play immediatly
1x Name Forgotten, The - Break recursive chains (Cybele)

Ally (2 cards)
2x Nephandus (Mage) - Kill of some torpored vamps, protection

Reaction (10 cards) - bleed protection through bounce
5x Deflection
5x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Combat (14 cards)
11x Apportation - Maneuver and press
3x Blood to Water - Kill an ally or deal 5 unpreventable to a vamp (doesn't torpor the vamp)(Imbued/Fortitude counter)



Current weaknesses:
1) Direct Intervention on the first Bum's Rush or Graverobber

2) I have 60% chance of getting a Zilla'h in turn 1.
If I get a single discard it's 65% T2.
If I can play a master/event (47%) this goes up to 70%.
Should I increase the Zillah to get this closer to 80%?

3) Bum's rush contains a Maneuver, maybe improve odds by going for 9 Apportation, 8 Graverobber, 9 Bum's Rush.

I want this deck to be a real one trick pony, it needs to pull off a double steal each time I play it.
#3399
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gotcha replied the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

some first thoughts ...
- vs combat ends > solution: add a couple of telepathic tracking (on AUS for Ash/frondator) or if you think blocking is an option > rotschreck
NSA is only acting and blocking ... if no one blocks bums rush they can just play majesty
- zillah only works on 8-cap or higher so since you do not have those ... drop'em
- shakar could be useful, as hand contract and shakar the hunt (trifles) since you have 2 black hands in crypt (add mosfair/gerald fitzgerald?+reunion kamut?)
- blood gain, none, blood spending, lots ... > graverob on DOM, defection, damage from combat, .... add coven, theft of vitae?
- only Ash has an aggravated strike .... add at least an ivory bow...
#3400
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2wayspeaker replied the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

- vs combat ends > solution: add a couple of telepathic tracking (on AUS for Ash/frondator) or if you think blocking is an option > rotschreck
NSA is only acting and blocking ... if no one blocks bums rush they can just play majesty

I do not consider blocking with intercept a viable option for this deck, it will fill my deck with to many wakes and AUS reaction cards to be reliable in those first 4 turns.

- zillah only works on 8-cap or higher so since you do not have those ... drop'em

Thanks for noticing Zillah doesn't work on Ash, that kinda ruins the whole idea. I'll work on a new iteration using Uta Kovac.

- shakar could be useful, as hand contract and shakar the hunt (trifles) since you have 2 black hands in crypt (add mosfair/gerald fitzgerald?+reunion kamut?)

Hand contract and Shakar: the Hunt look interesting.
Things like reunion to kamut and govern the unaligned do not help bringing both vampires out in turn 2.

- blood gain, none, blood spending, lots ... > graverob on DOM, defection, damage from combat, .... add coven, theft of vitae?

Theft will make the deck unable to do the strategy in 4 turns.
The coven looks interesting.
I plan on spending 14 pool in those first 4 turns: 9 to bring out Uta( 8 ) with Zillah + 3 to bring out Keith( 3 ) + 2 for Guardian Angel.

- only Ash has an aggravated strike .... add at least an ivory bow...

This is different in the new deck.

New Deck:

Deck Name: Star Oblivion
Author: 2wayspeaker
Description:
The goal of this Deck is to graverob your predator so early they cannot do anything against you, then you graverob your prey, you finish using their vampires and torpor/burn/steal the rest.

Scourge of the Enochians for Weenie control.
Apportation/Blood to water for Imbued and Fortitude.

Turn 1 & 2 Hand:(Zillah, Guardian, Graverobbing, Telepathic Tracking)
Burn cards to get a Zillah's Valley, the goal is to bring out Keith and Uta at the end of turn 2.
Get Telepathic Tracking to prevent combat ends.
(If your predator has weenee consider bringing out Scourge first)

Turn 3 (Guardian, Graverobbing, Burst)
Your predator hopefully brings out a high cap (9/10/11) at the end of his turn 3.
Play a Guardian Angel on Uta.
Rush the predator high cap with Uta, torpor them with Burst.
Play Graverobbing with Keith and burn 2 blood to get a ready high cap vampire that has lost no blood.

T4-end: Start burning excess Zillah/Guardian/Event (12 cards) and hope they don't choke your hand too soon.
Bring out Jacob and hope someone helps you along.
Try to play Deal with the Devil when you choke up, but when you get Deal with the Devil in turn 1/2/3 and you do not have the cards you need you should go for the discard as well.

Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=8 avg=4.83; 12 cards)
==================================================

1x Antonio d'Erlette 5 :dom: :for: :pot: :THA: !Tremere:4
1x Frondator 5 :dom: :tha: :AUS: !Tremere:4
2x Jacob, The Glitch 2 :THA: !Tremere:3
4x Keith Moody 3 :DOM: !Tremere:4
4x Uta Kovacs 8 :ser: :AUS: :DOM: :THA: !Tremere:4

Library (60 cards)
=====================

Master (11 cards)
1x Deal with the Devil
5x Guardian Angel
5x Zillah's Valley

Event (2 cards)
1x NSA Trio
1x Scourge of the Enochians

Action (12 cards)
4x Abbot
8x Graverobbing

Ally (2 cards)
2x Nephandus (Mage)

Reaction (10 cards)
5x Deflection
5x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Combat (23 cards)
5x Apportation
3x Blood to Water
11x Burst of Sunlight
4x Telepathic Tracking


Apportation is still included to make the blood to waters work, should I drop those to get more security? Drop (5 Apport, 3 BtW) Add (3 Telepathic Tracking, 2 Zillah, 2 Guardian, 1 Golconda)
#3403

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gotcha replied the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

I get the change of heart but I fear this choice will not improve the deck ...
- stiil no pool gain, more expensive vampire, guardian angel is good but I do not consider it the right card in this deck ... Uta (if you are not too unlucky, most star vamp decks play 5x) will cost you around 11 pool (1 zillah + 4 transfer + guardian angel) + keith=14 pool; with no pool gain ...
1 pentex subversion on uta and you're game is (basically) over (and that will happen, believe me); if someone has an ivory bow or plays anything aggravated or has aggro hand damage ... torpor time ....
- the combat module is not really strong since you have no prevention and no longer have the aggro built in strike (which means a lot of cards to play);
without guardian angel you have no aggravated at all without dying yourself. you will not be using the intercept a lot since you play as many wakes as bounce (which is most of the time more interesting to do) and guardian angle is only vs bleeds and you will be tapped out most of the time because of rush.
Sorry to be annoying like this .... and happy if you prove me wrong - ))
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gotcha replied the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

PS If you have no dominate predator (which happens - )), you can do 1 graverob with keith and then start hunting; you can still rush 1 vampire and torporize it (best case) which probably just will b rescued and then you can start again with no forward action at all for many many turns ...

I think for example that this is a good good module because of votes, bleed, pool gain, etcetc
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=17069
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2wayspeaker replied the topic: Deck Soissons 14/02, reviews and opinions please

Here's the revised deck list
http://www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=18378

Crypt (Capacity min=2 max=8 avg=4.92; 12 cards)
==================================================

2x Jacob, The Glitch 2 :THA: !Tremere:3
5x Keith Moody 3 :DOM: !Tremere:4
5x Uta Kovacs 8 :ser: :AUS: :DOM: :THA: !Tremere:4

Library (60 cards)
=====================

Master (16 cards)
1x Barrens, The
1x Deal with the Devil
1x Fragment of the Book of Nod
2x Golconda: Inner Peace
5x Guardian Angel
6x Zillah's Valley

Event (1 cards)
1x Scourge of the Enochians

Action (10 cards)
2x Abbot
8x Graverobbing

Ally (3 cards)
1x Alia, God's Messenger
2x Nephandus (Mage)

Reaction (9 cards)
4x Deflection
5x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Combat (21 cards)
3x Apportation
2x Blood to Water
10x Burst of Sunlight
6x Telepathic Tracking

- stiil no pool gain, more expensive vampire, guardian angel is good but I do not consider it the right card in this deck ... Uta (if you are not too unlucky, most star vamp decks play 5x) will cost you around 11 pool (1 zillah + 4 transfer + guardian angel) + keith=14 pool; with no pool gain ...
1 pentex subversion on uta and you're game is (basically) over (and that will happen, believe me); if someone has an ivory bow or plays anything aggravated or has aggro hand damage ... torpor time ....

I added a second Golconda, I can use it to get pool from a graverobbed vampire on inferior, one that ended up in my own torpor region.
Yes, any additional aggravated will torpor me. I added additional protection against that with Alia, God's Messenger. I dropped 2 Abbot and a Deflection.
I will play 5 of both Keith and Uta.

- the combat module is not really strong since you have no prevention and no longer have the aggro built in strike (which means a lot of cards to play);
without guardian angel you have no aggravated at all without dying yourself. you will not be using the intercept a lot since you play as many wakes as bounce (which is most of the time more interesting to do) and guardian angle is only vs bleeds and you will be tapped out most of the time because of rush.

Yes, but it is out way faster than High Cap competition at a time when they hopefully didn't cycle for their combat cards yet and are still trying to get their masters in play.

PS If you have no dominate predator (which happens - )), you can do 1 graverob with keith and then start hunting; you can still rush 1 vampire and torporize it (best case) which probably just will b rescued and then you can start again with no forward action at all for many many turns ...

My second rob is at inferior, after wich I hopefully crippled both predator and prey sufficiently to go hunt with Keith while I have 2 vamps in play, bleeding, and one trying to get out of torpor with no resistance from predator or prey.

I think for example that this is a good good module because of votes, bleed, pool gain, etcetc
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=17069

When you look at that deck it has only a 22% chance of getting out Malgarotza at the end of turn 2, active in turn 3, in turn 3 it will then not do an aggressive action. It will then definitely use chiropteran marauder, so both of us are torpored, but I get to Steal Malgarotza unopposed and use him to retrieve Uta. My predator just lost 11 Pool and has to go on the defensive.

I know having the deck spring in Turn 3 is a long shot.
I need to start 3,4 or 5th. (60%)
I need to draw a crypt with one Uta and one Keith. (86%)
I need to play either The Barrens, Fragment of Nod, Deal with the Devil Turn 1 and Zilla Turn 2 or Zilla Turn 1 (84%)
I need to play Guardian Angel Turn 3 (85%)
So compounded that makes 33% chance of it going flawless not considering what the opponents can do.

But when it does go of you steal about 20 pool worth of vampires, and cripple both your predator and prey before they can play a villein.
#3406

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